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Post by akanundrum on Aug 25, 2015 18:03:22 GMT -8
Ok...WHAT is submission to you?
Why do we as STRONG BLACK WOMEN have such a problem with the concept?
Is it antiquated?
Is it our true and natural state that we've been programmed against?
What does this word evoke in you?
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jayscott
Female
Posts: 18
Relationship: Single Searching
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Post by jayscott on Aug 25, 2015 18:35:17 GMT -8
It doesn't evoke any positivity as far as I am concerned. And honestly, I don't know if we trust black men enough to give any sort of real power to them. I think it is tough because as black women, we trust ourselves and that's it. In order to defer, you gotta trust that the other person can lead you somewhere and that trust is not there at all.
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Post by queenali on Aug 25, 2015 18:44:28 GMT -8
I agree with jayscott as far as the need for trust when it comes to submission. That is such a huuuge factor (really the only factor lol).
I know this may not be popular opinion, but I think that if man and woman are to truly come together she must submit to him as well as him submit to her. I do not see submission as someone lording over you, but two people that submit to each other are only going to work for the betterment of the other person. I do find that there are a lot of women submitting to men they have no business submitting to. It must be with someone that is willing to grow with you and trust is 100% the key ingredient. Submission is necessary for both parties in order to have a successful relationship in my opinion.
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leoqueen4u
Female
Worthy and deserving of a GREAT KING...Reciprocity is key!
Posts: 10
Relationship: Single Not Looking
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Post by leoqueen4u on Aug 25, 2015 18:54:30 GMT -8
To me, when I'm able to truly be myself submission is not an issue I give of myself freely and expect the same in return. Submission is problematic for me when I'm expected to immerse myself completely in someone else's expectations, requirements, or standards, therefore losing myself, my identity. Because i have experienced that before in a relationship, I became very oppositional, giving in only when I was physically forced to.
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alikakaluwa
Female
Most beautiful forgotten one
Posts: 16
Relationship: Single Searching
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Post by alikakaluwa on Aug 25, 2015 18:57:25 GMT -8
Submission often gets confused with control. I think that's the problem. Women see this as a way for a man to "do what he wants" or "run" a woman. It's not (in my opinion, that is). I love the idea of a man being my leader and guiding me/us through life. I love the idea of someone loving and respecting me enough to know what was best for us. I love the idea of a man knowing me well enough to be the leader in my life. The hard part is finding it and then allowing it to happen. Us women have had to be strong for a long time that when an able bodied man comes along, we don't know how to chill and play our role as the woman. Submission has became this dirty word and it doesn't have to be...but I guess to each its own!
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leoqueen4u
Female
Worthy and deserving of a GREAT KING...Reciprocity is key!
Posts: 10
Relationship: Single Not Looking
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Post by leoqueen4u on Aug 25, 2015 19:02:24 GMT -8
I definitely agree that submission has been equated to control and that's not what it means. I also agree that submission has been given to the wrong people. I've been involved with one person in particular, that took this to totally different level.
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jayscott
Female
Posts: 18
Relationship: Single Searching
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Post by jayscott on Aug 25, 2015 19:15:21 GMT -8
Submission a lot of times comes with the word obey. The word obey does imply a relinquishing of power rather than just deferment. And that obey part is a hard thing to do.
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Post by amirinyahya on Aug 25, 2015 20:30:52 GMT -8
This one gets SO many differing opinions but let's talk about ORDER. Let's talk about creating what we want...not what we DON'T want. Is submitting control really that bad? Is it not stress relief for a woman to not HAVE TO worry about solving every problem? It really gives us the space to do what we're naturally created to do -which is be a CREATIVE force - when we're not trying to do EVERYTHING.
It's so easy to say "black men are dropping the ball" or how they're not doing their job but then turn around and say WE want to do their job and it's "disrespectful" for us to let go of the reigns.
Submission has been equated with SLAVERY for a reason. Because the slave MASTER knows that if WE submit to OUR black men, we WON'T submit to them.
An elder told me recently and it made ALL the sense, "our women won't submit to us but they don't think twice about submitting to their bosses - who are usually NOT black."
See how that works?
The LANGUAGE is what's holding us captive.
See, I was BORN rebellious...I mean, NOBODY could tell me anything! I rebelled myself into homelessness and abuse - simply because I wouldn't submit "My Way" to "the right way". So I KNOW how it feels to hate the words "obedience" and submission.
But I learned that if I wanted a KING, I had to OVERstand the natural laws that govern kingdoms, and in a KINGDOM, everyone obeys the king. Why? Because the King has their best interests in mind...even if the people don't agree. As a WIFE, this principle has simplified my life SO much!
Even as a business owner, if you want success in ANY arena, you have to SUBMIT to the laws that govern that arena.
There are laws that govern love and relationships and as long as we choose to go against the natural FLOW, we'll be unsuccessful and wondering "what' wrong with him".
My husband knew NOTHING about being a husband and father when we met. He had no man to teach him. It was my trusting in him (I first had to learn his morals, values, work ethic and sense of responsibility) and submitting to his leadership that helped him elevate to a man that can now teach other men how to do it.
I share with my sisters always that if he ain't a damn JOKER, submit to the King in him and watch him RISE to those standards.
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Post by agiftfromgod on Sept 27, 2015 17:49:22 GMT -8
When akanundrum first posted this question on Instagram, it really made me think. What I desire in my relationship is to be my natural an organic self. To me, submission means freedom. It means I don't have to be responsible for everything. I have someone who helps create a space where I can live in my purpose.We as a couple can simply be. We can exist in a harmonious relationship with understood roles and responsibilities that fit us . Submission means balance between the feminine and the masculine.
My definition is strictly for the relationship I wish to have and is not applicable to every relationship. I believe that it is the responsibility of the couple to talk about power dynamics and gender roles in the relationship.
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Post by morallady on Sept 28, 2015 10:59:45 GMT -8
For years I was completely against it because and the meaning as well as the context it was used in, I viewed it very negatively. I've had issues with authority so, I certainly wasn't interested in the concept. I will say though today, I am willing to submit to a worthy king that is a strong leader that makes responsive choices. We can define it and tweak it our way to work the way we choose, versus the traditional shown above.
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Post by dgomez on Sept 28, 2015 16:23:57 GMT -8
Ahhhhhh freedom!! That's it!! Submission is never a word I would use to describe the natural roles of partnership. But I definitely see it as personal freedom, let my king do his thing and in turn he lets me do mine. agiftfromgod you explained it well!
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Post by sistaallie on Oct 1, 2015 11:32:48 GMT -8
I don't think that a woman is obligated to submit to her partner in any way. This idea of submissiveness comes from the supposed "natural" gender roles that have been laid out. The reality is that people are incredibly diverse. For every “naturally” nurturing woman, there is a woman who finds the idea of having children foreign and frightening. For every man who loves to fix things, there is a man who would prefer to take his car to the shop or call a plumber. I know so many people who absolutely do not fit within these “natural” gender roles that it begins to make the idea of natural gender roles seem absurd, or at the very least way too simplistic and highly problematic. This isn't to say that all women shouldn't be submissive to their man but it does mean that not all women should be expected to be submissive to their man. A Woman should do what is most comfortable and desirable for her. I have studied history, and I know that gender roles differ across regions and across time period. For example, some Native American societies were/are ruled by women, not men. In addition, the idea that women should inhabit the private sphere of the home while the man should inhabit the public sphere of the workforce, for instance, was literally invented in America – and in Europe as well – in the early 1800s. If a wife prefers to cook and a husband prefers to fix things around the house or do yard work, that’s fine. But what about the husband who prefers cooking and child rearing and the wife with the fulfilling high-level career? Those who believe in specific gender roles would see this couple as an abnormal, or even as problematic. One more point. Girls are supposedly more nurturing and submissive while boys are more individualistic and exhibit more leadership qualities. The problem with taking this as an assumption is not just the exceptions to this, but also the fact that girls are actively socialized to be nurturing and submissive from birth while boys are actively socialized to be individualistic and leaders. Girls are given dolls and tea sets. Boys are given sling shots and books about explorers. What if you did the opposite? If we stopped socializing children into distinct gender roles, I’m convinced that gender roles would disappear. Gender roles, you see, are not natural. They’re socially constructed.
Just my thoughts.
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Post by amirinyahya on Oct 10, 2015 23:07:46 GMT -8
My sons get sling shots and truck, my daughters will get dolls and tea sets. Here's why- my sons are going to be husbands one day. I need them to know how to protect their homes and families. I need them to know that that is their duty. Not just to their women and children, but to their nation.
My daughters will be raised with dolls because they are designed to be mothers, biologically. They will be taught that their wombs are sacred and they deserve the protection and provision of their future husbands because they carry they divine assignment of bringing new lives into this world.
Whether any of them fulfill their assignments is their choice but I will equip them to do so.
We don't believe that women should be barefoot and pregnant but we do believe they should be safe and protected while carrying out their roles. I, and my AWESOME sister who created this site, are prime examples of women who are both nurturing and entrepreneurial. Mommies making sh*t happen.
While women being solely bound to the home may be a western invention, submission is not. It was set up to ensure that the woman, the womb, is always protected and able to bring forth life in comfort and safety so that humanity can continue to thrive. It is the freedom to CREATE without worry.
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Post by konsciousMind on Oct 13, 2015 18:38:25 GMT -8
My sons get sling shots and truck, my daughters will get dolls and tea sets. Here's why- my sons are going to be husbands one day. I need them to know how to protect their homes and families. I need them to know that that is their duty. Not just to their women and children, but to their nation. My daughters will be raised with dolls because they are designed to be mothers, biologically. They will be taught that their wombs are sacred and they deserve the protection and provision of their future husbands because they carry they divine assignment of bringing new lives into this world. Whether any of them fulfill their assignments is their choice but I will equip them to do so. We don't believe that women should be barefoot and pregnant but we do believe they should be safe and protected while carrying out their roles. I, and my AWESOME sister who created this site, are prime examples of women who are both nurturing and entrepreneurial. Mommies making sh*t happen. While women being solely bound to the home may be a western invention, submission is not. It was set up to ensure that the woman, the womb, is always protected and able to bring forth life in comfort and safety so that humanity can continue to thrive. It is the freedom to CREATE without worry. I can share the feelings behind this post. You explained it in a light that makes all too much sense. We have natural roles that come into play from the universe. What we see today is a lot of the reversal roles and I can say that it is not bringing about the necessary progress. So yes submit to the ways of nature. What comes to us naturally through the alignment of the universe. I see it daily as a mother, not to downplay my significant other but there are things that he is so far left about when it comes to our children but then he pulls through in the areas that truly matter, having us covered and feeling safe.
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Post by cellychai on Oct 18, 2015 20:26:58 GMT -8
Submitting use to be a touchy topic to me because my parents raised me to be very independent. Being an only child I had to be that way. Being a single woman I still have to be that way, but over the years I have learned that I would be willing to "submit" to the right man. Submitting is no longer something that I fear because even us strong independent women need some level of balance and someone to be vulnerable with....to do that requires submission, but it is necessary to choose wisely.
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